Sean: Hello there, I’m Sean Woolley, managing director of Cloud Nine Spain. With me, I’m delighted to say I have Augusto, the head of sales for TM Grupo on the Costa del Sol. I’m delighted that you are here. Well, I’m here because this is your world. We’re in the sales office of their latest project, which is called Atalaya Emotion. And what I wanted to do with Augusto is just to find out how the market is behaving, what their plans are for the future. TM is quite a big group, and what’s been happening, why they’re here in the Costa del Sol. Because you’re originally… The history of TM is back in the Costa Blanca, isn’t it?

Augusto: Originally from Torrevieja, You know, it’s the Serna family name. TM is family owned, still very big. We are already 53 years old, more than 20,000 properties built along the Mediterranean, only residential tourism. And although it’s a very big company, still family owned. So it’s a very personal company.

Sean: And I know that you’ve built a lot of properties in the Costa Blanca very successfully and you are continuing to do so. So why the Costa del Sol? What brought TM to the Costa del Sol?

Augusto: Well, it’s a matter of expansion. We started in Costa Blanca, we are very, very strong in Benidorm, for example, Orihuela, et cetera. And then we were moving to Almeria where we’re building 3000 properties there. Then we moved on to Majorca.

Sean: Keep it going down the coast.

Augusto: Yeah, yeah, like that. Yeah, yeah, all along the coast. And in Mallorca, lots of Germans, as you can imagine. And then Costa del Sol was six, seven years ago

Sean: With Miradores, was it?

Augusto: No, that was Dream Gardens.

Sean: Dream Gardens, that’s it. In La Cala?

Augusto: Exactly. That was the first thing. And then Marbella Senses.

Sean: Yes, yeah.

Augusto: In the Golden Mile. That was in the middle of the big crisis.

Sean: That’s right.

Augusto: And the land owners were actually giving their land away because nothing was built. So we always get well along with when big crises come because we don’t need to finance our projects. We don’t take mortgages from the bank. We build with our own resources so we can actually buy the land and build-

Sean: So there’s always opportunities, aren’t there? When the market dips a little there’s always a few opportunities to buy.

Augusto: Because there was nothing new to be sold then in Marbella, almost nothing.

Sean: That’s right.

Augusto: And that was a very, very nice plot. And we went for sale, new townhouses in the Golden Mile walking distance for 600,000 euros.

Sean: I remember when it was released thinking, “Wow, you know, I wish I had the money.”

Augusto: We were trying to figure out the prices, but there were no tests. We couldn’t see how much we can sell. So later on, we realized we were selling too cheap.

Sean: That’s right. So the people who got in early, you got a good price.

Augusto: Yeah, now selling for double the price for those properties.

Sean: Great location. And then from there, was it then to Cancelada?

Augusto: And then Golden Green.

Sean: Golden Green, Nueva Andalucia.

Augusto: Little… eight boutique project. And then Los Miradores del Sol. Three phases. Phase 1, 49 apartments sold, second phase, 67 apartments sold, and then phase three 14 townhouses, they all sold.

Sean: Okay. So very successful.

Augusto: Yeah.

Sean: And now this…

Augusto: And now at Atalaya Emotion.

Sean: Okay. And what’s the story with Atalaya Emotion? Because I know this plot very well. It’s in a great location next to the school, walking distance to Mercadona, you’re five minutes to Benahavis Village, you’re two or three minutes down to the coast road. Great location.

Augusto: It’s a great location.

Sean: So what are you doing here?

Augusto: I think it’s the last plot in Atalaya. So that has a already a value because they will be the most modern apartments for a very, very long time.

Sean: That’s right, that’s right.

Augusto: And they have the panoramic views. You know what I mean, there’s nothing in front, it’s land. And the river of Guadalmina, we are right next to Marbella. To the left, you have La Concha mountain, in front is the land and these old architectural buildings in Guadalmina. And to the right, you have the sea. So you have sea views from the penthouses.

Sean: And you’re surrounded by golf as well because you’ve got all the golf courses in this neighborhood as well.

Augusto: Yeah, I think it’s three or four. El Paraiso, Atalaya, etc. You can actually drive with the buggy. And… a big project, big organization with almost 7,000 square meters of common areas, with a heated pool for the winter, heated Jacuzzis, gym, a lake with an island in the middle. We’ve got petanque, you know a petanque field, which is a very social sport.

Sean: But how many apartments?

Augusto: 63 apartments.

Sean: And price ranges?

Augusto: We started at €395k, but they were all very quickly sold. We’ve sold 50%.

Sean: And what would that buy you? Two bed, two bath?

Augusto: That’s two bed, two bath.

Sean: Size, roughly?

Augusto: Size is 95 square meters built inside. Plus big terraces. We’re doing terraces with 30, 40 square meters.

Sean: That’s good, yeah.

Augusto: And garden, very big gardens with double orientation. So we made some gardens… Because the plot needs to have some blocks East facing. So in the ground floors, we’ve done gardens to the front, to the east and to the back.

Sean: Nice, okay.

Augusto: Even 60 square meters in the back because of the West sun.

Sean: Because I actually love being East-facing. Because I like the morning sun. And sometimes when you live here, you’ve kind of had enough sun by the afternoon and evening. But a lot of people, obviously when it’s a second home they want that evening sun. They want that cocktail terrace or that bit of garden sun. Because this is a predominantly East facing plot. That’s really clever to, you know, make something of the of the rear of the property that you can enjoy. So it’s overcoming that objection, isn’t it? Where they say, “Oh, I want to be West facing.” Well, you can be as well.

Augusto: That’s it, yes.

Sean: It’s interesting that you mentioned about the heated pool because there’s not many. I know there’s a couple of developments near here that have heated pools but there’s not many on the Costa del Sol. Probably less than 5%.

Augusto: Oh really?

Sean: Probably even less than that that have heated pools. Now that people are buying for lifestyle reasons. I think it’s a really nice thing to incorporate because when you have a communal pool, of course it’s beautiful to look at. It’s lit up at night, but for nine months of the year you can’t really swim. So it’s nice that you’ve included one here because it just gives people that extra facility that they can enjoy with their families and their friends.

Augusto: Absolutely.

Sean: I’m pleased to hear that. So how is the sales going here, head of sales?

Augusto: 50% sold in phase one.

Sean: Without anything being built?

Augusto: No, no. I’ve started today digging the pool. But from phase one we have released 30 apartments. In the first three blocks we have in phase one, we have blocks to the South, Southeast and East. And second phase will be a big block to the South, one block to the East and one block to the West. We manage to get-

Sean: Something for everyone you manage to tilt-

Augusto: We have everything.

Sean: So what happens when this is sold out? Because this is going to sell out in the next few months, I guess, hopefully, head of sales. So what happens then? Are you out of a job or is there another project coming up?

Augusto: This is always the same question. Many people ask this, “When you sell out, what will you do?”

Sean: What happens next?

Augusto: We’re looking for-

Sean: Don’t be too good.

Augusto: We have the last unit in Banus Bay.

Sean: Which is… I went to the show home opening there. Very nice project. And that’s sold really well, hasn’t it? Because that, I guess for you guys was a bit of a risk because the pricing is higher. It’s it’s, you know-

Augusto: It was something relatively new for TM. TM is more an apartment developer, mid to high price. And this was actually the urbanization with the most expensive houses we’ve done until now. But we are in the Costa del Sol, so we need to get into that market slowly. So yeah, last one for sale. Fully furnished is actually the show house. Then we have the next project in Puerto Banus. It’s right next to it.

Sean: Okay. A little down toward the beach, so it’s 200 meters to the beach.

Augusto: Are you able to tell us anything about that or is it secret?

Sean: No, that will-

Augusto: Do I have to sign something?

Sean: I will show you the project now when we are finished It’s going to be five villas, detached. That’s a very special project for TM now. South facing, big villas, plots 500 to 600 square meters.

Sean: Sounds expensive, doesn’t it?

Augusto: Yeah, it’s on the beach, you are walking distance to Puerto Banus, it’s five minutes with a bike. And 700 to 800 square meters built.

Sean: Wow. These a big, big villas.

Augusto: Very, very nice. Very nice.

Sean: Yeah. I’m sure it’s very nice price.

Augusto: We don’t have price at the moment. But it’s going to be around 3 million.

Sean: Okay. That sounds fair enough. And in terms of apartments, are there any plans for more apartments after Atalaya Emotion?

Augusto: We bought another plot in Higueron.

Sean: Oh yeah, okay.

Augusto: Very close to Playa de Carvajal. Where some of the projects are being done at the moment also. And we expect to launch at the end of summer.

Sean: That’s interesting because obviously Higueron West was probably the biggest selling project last year, before. So it’s a good area, if you get the product right and you’re able to offer the right thing at the right price. And it’s a good one.

Augusto: It’s good because TM is always asking our department, sales department, what the clients want.

Sean: Yeah. Which is great.

Augusto: If you see, for all the departments in Higueron, will have sea views. And here in Atalaya, the design department and the architectural department were asking us what we want to do. So we made wide living rooms. We made big main rooms up to 18 square meters useful surface. We made big terraces, big gardens, the qualities we wanted.

Sean: And who’s buying TM apartments and villas? Is there a specific nationality or age profile?

Augusto: Not really.

Sean: Or is it a complete mixture?

Augusto: Not really. As you know, it’s a big mixture of people. Maybe we can say Scandinavian, Swedish. They like our projects. They’re very… a lot of buyers there. But they also like our projects for different things. It’s the underfloor, we make underfloor heating standard in all the properties. Even the least expensive apartments. And with the aerothermic system. Which is very energy efficient, you save 60%. So I think Scandinavians love that.

Sean: What I also like… I pass Miradores del Sol, but I pass there every day. Because I live up in the hills.

Augusto: I know, I see you.

Sean: Yeah, you saw…

Augusto: I saw you.

Sean: I’ll keep waving. And what I loved was you could have made those buildings just very plain and white and boring like a lot of developments here at the moment. But what I loved about what TM did was they just made it architecturally quite interesting with the wooden features and I’m sure it didn’t cost a huge amount. I’m sure it… But it just added something. Some sort of depth and soul to that development. And I think it’s one of the most attractive looking developments on the whole coast. And for the price point, it was really good. And I’m not saying that just to big up TM because I’m sat here in your office and you might lock me in. But yeah, it’s a really attractive project. And I think what you said about when you are developing ideas for new projects it sounds like it’s quite a collaborative approach. So not only with probably the head guys at TM and you here on the ground, but also with agents. I know that you reach out to agents and also ask for their feedback and you know who’s buying, what’s happening, and what does the market want. So it’s really encouraging. My next question to you was going to be what… You know, obviously there’s a lot of developers out there all competing for the same clients. What sets TM apart would you say? What is it that people will get from an experience with TM?

Augusto: Well, this was, we were saying before, it’s a family-owned company. There is no fund behind it or something like that. It’s a second generation, it’s a classical developer. We only do that. We are very compact. We build ourselves, we promote, we develop, we build, we finance ourselves and we provide a very nice after-sales support. And we even have always an office on-site, an after-sales office on-site. So one of the apartments, we don’t sell it. And we had set our after-sales office there. So if the client has any problem, it’s not only an email or a telephone, they can actually walk from their apartment to the sales office and say, “Hey, look, I don’t know how that works. Can you come?” Yes, of course. I will tell you, it’s sometimes not easy, so okay don’t worry…

Sean: That’s really important. Because we’re finding at the moment, obviously, you know the market is busy. There’s a lot of big, big Spanish developers in the market who are delivering a lot of units. But I think the aftercare and the quality control is suffering because of that. I mean, these are mainly publicly listed companies. So it’s all about the figures. It’s all about the profit and the, you know, the return for shareholders. And we’ve noticed that the clients are the ones who suffer. Because they get their nice new apartments but there’s no handover process. There’s no snagging. There’s none of that after-sales, which is the pain in the bum type of bit, isn’t it? It’s the bit that people don’t like to do, but you have to do it because that’s part of the part of the job. And so it’s really encouraging to hear that that’s something that TM does really well. And I know that you guys also have, is it rental and management services that you can also-

Augusto: Yeah.

Sean: Which is good.

Augusto: Furniture packages. We get you the energy. I mean the light with the electric company. We get you the internet. We contract the water. So when you come from the notary you can actually have the whole furniture package with everything. The forks, the…-

Sean: The taps on the-

Augusto: The cork screw.

Sean: Oh, okay, okay.

Augusto: And everything and the light in your name already. We go there, we do that for you.

Sean: Fantastic.

Augusto: And in the handover, our after-sales team goes with you to the apartment, to every single apartment and shows you exactly how everything works.

Sean: Lovely. That’s really encouraging to hear that because obviously when we recommend a product, when we take a client to a developer, we want an easy life but we also want our clients to be happy. So the fact that you are extending that service and not just abandoning the client is really, really important.

Augusto: We made the surveys, independent surveys to the clients after they visited the sales office, after the handover of the apartment, and six months after living in the apartment or owning the apartment. And all these surveys are analyzed and we say, “No, we are doing this wrong, we’re doing this well, we have to do this better.”

Sean: Very good.

Augusto: So we take this very seriously, yeah.

Sean: Very good. So, okay. So there’s more projects coming. That’s going to keep you busy, very good. You’re still going to be operating in the Costa Blanca because that’s your home, your home ground, I guess. But Costa del Sol, you are happy with the progress and you are determined to move forward here on the Costa del Sol.

Augusto: So yes, yes. Now there are plans to grow.

Sean: That’s very interesting.

Augusto: Very much, not too much. We don’t want to lose that personal touch, but we want, we know there are more possibilities in the market to have more product.

Sean: Fantastic. Augusto, thank you so much-

Augusto: You’re so welcome.

Sean: For allowing me into your temporary home. And I know there’s not a lot to see on this project, apart from the digger digging the pool, which is very exciting but I know that over the coming weeks and months this place is going to look very different. So yeah. We’ll be seeing you very soon with clients.

Augusto: Okay.

Sean: Thank you.

Augusto: Thank you for coming.